Horror News
👻 David Lynch passes at 78: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/16/movies/david-lynch-dead.html
👻 ‘Talk to Me 2’ not currently in development: https://screenrant.com/talk-to-me-2-sophie-wilde-return-disappointing-update/
👻 ‘Until Dawn’ movie adaptation trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3vBaINZ7w
👻 Jasmin Savoy Brown confirmed for ‘Scream 7’: https://gamerant.com/scream-7-jasmin-savoy-brown-returning-mindy-chad-storyline/
Please check out our other episodes and don't forget to drop a like and subscribe. 🔪 If you have a movie you'd like us to watch, or you bet that Cassidy hasn't seen, drop us a comment for a future episode!
Website: killercutiespodcast.com
TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@killercutiespodcast
Instagram: https://instagram.com/killercutiespodcast
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7hflFxVjaOeliMXEWug3ce?si=6d15ba8f4ac54c19
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@killercutiespodcast/videos
In this episode, the hosts discuss various topics including the recent passing of David Lynch, upcoming horror films, and the criticism surrounding video game adaptations. They delve into the details of 'The Shining' and its sequel 'Doctor Sleep', exploring their impact on the horror genre and the differing opinions of Stephen King regarding the adaptations. The conversation also touches on character portrayals and the performances of Jack Nicholson and Shelley Duvall. In this segment, the conversation delves into the character dynamics and relationships within 'The Shining', exploring the casting choices and the directorial vision of Stanley Kubrick. The hosts discuss memorable performances, the impact of the film, and the experiences of the actors during production. They also touch on Kubrick's unique directing style, contrasting it with Clint Eastwood's approach, and share fun facts and behind-the-scenes insights. They discuss the film's connection to 'Monsters, Inc.,' the challenges of creating a sequel to a classic, and the significance of character names and symbolism. The conversation also touches on the casting choices and the director's approach to storytelling, highlighting the balance between horror's tangible and intangible elements. In this episode, Cassidy and Kd delve into the casting choices and character portrayals in 'Doctor Sleep' and 'The Shining', sharing fun facts and behind-the-scenes insights. They rate both films, discussing their cultural impact and personal impressions. The conversation also touches on survival in horror scenarios and concludes with predictions for the next week's movie, 'Eraserhead'.
00:00:00
Hello.
00:00:01
Hi.
00:00:03
Happy Tuesday.
00:00:05
Is it a happy Tuesday?
00:00:08
I don't know, it's actually Friday.
00:00:10
Yeah, I'm forward thinking to what Tuesday is,
00:00:13
and in the future, we no longer have TikTok
00:00:17
and Trump is our president.
00:00:19
I think it's gonna be a rough Tuesday.
00:00:21
Well, maybe- If you're listening to this, sorry.
00:00:24
Yeah, maybe we can spread some joy.
00:00:27
Yeah, this will be a distraction.
00:00:29
I hope.
00:00:31
That's the goal.
00:00:32
Yeah.
00:00:33
We'll see.
00:00:34
Yeah.
00:00:36
Don't forget to follow us on YouTube, I guess.
00:00:39
Yeah.
00:00:40
Yeah, we're on YouTube.
00:00:42
I guess we should start posting there more often
00:00:44
since the TikTok is gone.
00:00:48
That's so weird to think about.
00:00:49
I was definitely in denial about it.
00:00:51
Yeah.
00:00:52
We never know.
00:00:53
We never know what could happen on Monday.
00:00:56
That's true.
00:00:56
Maybe by the time this is released,
00:00:59
we'll have different news.
00:01:01
Yeah.
00:01:01
But we're filming this on Friday the 17th,
00:01:05
and it's looking grim, folks.
00:01:06
Yeah.
00:01:08
Oh, gosh.
00:01:10
All right, should we get into it?
00:01:11
There's a lot.
00:01:12
It's a lot.
00:01:12
It's a big episode today.
00:01:13
This is a big episode.
00:01:14
We should have forgotten news, but we do have some,
00:01:16
so maybe we start there.
00:01:18
Yeah, let's start.
00:01:19
Like we do.
00:01:19
You start.
00:01:20
I'll start.
00:01:22
I'll start with a sad one.
00:01:23
Just get all the sad stuff out of the way.
00:01:26
David Lynch has unfortunately passed away
00:01:28
at the age of 78 after an emphysema diagnosis.
00:01:33
He was obviously the prolific director and writer of films
00:01:36
like Blue Velvet and Mulholland Drive
00:01:38
and the 80s version of Dune.
00:01:40
He's known for his surrealism and elements of horror
00:01:42
that he integrated into all of his work.
00:01:45
Coincidentally, he was also a huge inspiration
00:01:47
for Stanley Kubrick, who we're going
00:01:48
to talk about a lot in this episode.
00:01:50
But all to say, rest in peace, David Lynch.
00:01:53
Yeah, it was definitely sad news.
00:01:55
And I think it was his emphysema was then
00:01:59
it acted out because of the fires he had to evacuate.
00:02:03
So sad.
00:02:04
I know it's just added to the already tragic circumstances
00:02:08
that are that are happening here.
00:02:09
So yeah, that's terrible.
00:02:13
Definitely very, very sad day.
00:02:16
But we will we actually move the schedule around.
00:02:18
So we are going to be talking about one of his movies
00:02:20
next week instead.
00:02:21
So I know honor him a little bit.
00:02:24
Good.
00:02:25
Good, good.
00:02:26
Is Dune?
00:02:28
No, we are not watching the sci-fi classic Dune
00:02:33
on our horror movie podcast.
00:02:35
Sorry.
00:02:35
It's horrifying.
00:02:37
Is it?
00:02:38
Yeah.
00:02:39
It's crazy.
00:02:40
Oh, no.
00:02:42
I learned the meaning of Lynchian
00:02:44
when I watched that movie for the first time.
00:02:47
Yeah, I mean, that checks out.
00:02:48
He's got a vibe to him.
00:02:50
He sure, I assume, does.
00:02:53
There's a vibe to that movie.
00:02:54
That's the only one of his I've seen.
00:02:56
Yeah.
00:02:57
All right.
00:02:58
Not as sad news.
00:03:00
We're going to lift the vibes up now.
00:03:02
OK.
00:03:03
Well, maybe not actually.
00:03:05
Way back in 2023, Talk to Me came out,
00:03:09
and they announced that there was going to be a sequel to it.
00:03:11
No, don't piss me off.
00:03:12
We're not getting it anytime soon.
00:03:14
God damn it.
00:03:14
I know.
00:03:15
I'm sorry.
00:03:15
A lot of people thought maybe it was
00:03:17
going to come out this year.
00:03:18
No.
00:03:20
It's still in the writing process.
00:03:22
The Philippu brothers, they've been
00:03:24
working on a different film altogether,
00:03:26
so not even really working on Talk to Me 2.
00:03:31
But yeah, back in August, they wrapped filming
00:03:33
on Bring Her Back, which kind of sounds
00:03:36
like it could be the sequel.
00:03:37
But it's not.
00:03:38
It's not.
00:03:38
It's a completely separate film.
00:03:40
It doesn't have a release date, but it
00:03:42
seems like we're probably going to get that before we
00:03:44
get the Talk to Me sequel.
00:03:46
I mean, I guess.
00:03:47
Yeah.
00:03:49
Talk to Me slapped.
00:03:50
Yeah, I know.
00:03:52
I was really excited about it.
00:03:53
But I'm also excited to see other things that they do,
00:03:55
because that was my favorite horror movie of 2023.
00:03:59
So I'm excited, I guess.
00:04:03
That was a long time ago.
00:04:04
Yeah.
00:04:05
OK.
00:04:07
I actually also kind of have another Downer news.
00:04:09
It's not like that big of a Downer, though.
00:04:11
It's just like, yeah.
00:04:13
At some point here, this will be the comedy podcast
00:04:17
that you've come to know.
00:04:19
Anyway.
00:04:20
No comedy today.
00:04:21
Yeah, no.
00:04:22
It's grim.
00:04:23
Things are grim.
00:04:25
We have the trailer for the highly anticipated movie
00:04:28
adaptation of the Until Dawn video game.
00:04:31
And it's getting a lot of credit to them.
00:04:34
If you don't know, Until Dawn is sort of like butterfly effect,
00:04:38
build your own story kind of game.
00:04:42
So naturally, it will probably be difficult to put into film.
00:04:48
And it's kind of giving those vibes.
00:04:50
The criticism has largely been, what is the storyline here,
00:04:54
and how are they going to pull this off?
00:04:56
So I'm still excited about it.
00:04:58
And we've watched Friends play Until Dawn on stream.
00:05:01
Did you play Until Dawn?
00:05:02
I haven't.
00:05:03
Mm-mm.
00:05:03
OK.
00:05:05
It wasn't available on PC when I got into the Supermassive games.
00:05:10
Oh, yes.
00:05:11
It's recently on stream.
00:05:13
Yeah, they just remastered it.
00:05:15
But I haven't played it since they did.
00:05:18
Well, maybe we will between now and when that movie comes out.
00:05:22
Yeah.
00:05:22
I've heard, because I think a lot of people
00:05:24
thought that they would just pick a path, right?
00:05:28
Pick a route.
00:05:29
Yeah.
00:05:29
Maybe one of the more popular ones.
00:05:31
Yeah.
00:05:32
Like, here's the cannon.
00:05:33
Yes.
00:05:33
If it's a choose your own adventure,
00:05:35
just pick one of the adventures and go with that.
00:05:38
And I think the problem is that a lot of people
00:05:40
are seeing the trailer, and it's not anything
00:05:43
to do with the storyline at all.
00:05:45
Yeah.
00:05:45
So that's a weird choice.
00:05:48
Just call it, almost at that point,
00:05:50
just call it a Supermassive Universe story
00:05:52
or something like that.
00:05:53
Don't use Until Dawn if it's not going to be that story.
00:05:56
Yeah, I agree.
00:05:57
I don't know.
00:05:59
But no, I think it would have been much more fun
00:06:01
to watch the storyline that they intend you to take,
00:06:07
because you're still going to be guessing the entire time.
00:06:09
There's so many different choices you could make.
00:06:11
You're still going to be guessing,
00:06:12
oh, is this person going to live through the end?
00:06:13
Is this person going to live through the end?
00:06:15
Yeah, I think it would have been fun to see them choose
00:06:17
an outcome, choose a path.
00:06:19
Yeah.
00:06:21
Yeah.
00:06:22
Their loss.
00:06:23
Yeah, I guess.
00:06:26
All right, last news from me.
00:06:28
A little bit more news for Scream 7,
00:06:30
if people still care about that.
00:06:34
One, Jasmine Savoy Brown is officially coming back.
00:06:39
We hadn't heard anything.
00:06:41
But yeah, so she's returning as Minnie Meeks Martin,
00:06:43
so now both twins are going to be back, Chad and Mindy.
00:06:47
And then two, previously, the fan theory
00:06:50
was that Sydney was married to Mark Kinkade, played
00:06:53
by Patrick Dunsey in Scream 3, because she
00:06:55
mentions her husband, Mark.
00:06:58
Hello, slam dunk.
00:07:01
No, debunked.
00:07:03
Not true.
00:07:04
Wow.
00:07:04
Her husband's name is now Mark Evans,
00:07:06
and he's going to be played by Joel McHale.
00:07:09
What the fuck?
00:07:10
Yeah, we're making some big choices.
00:07:13
Joel McHale from Community?
00:07:15
Joel McHale from Community is playing Niamh Campbell's
00:07:18
husband.
00:07:19
Comedy man.
00:07:20
Yeah, well, Scream's funny.
00:07:22
Well, but-
00:07:24
Alison Brie from Community was in there.
00:07:27
Yeah, but I just think he's goofy,
00:07:30
and that's not who I imagine Sydney to be married to.
00:07:34
No.
00:07:35
Damn.
00:07:36
I don't doubt that he can do it.
00:07:39
I just think everything was set up for us to believe
00:07:43
that Mark Kinkade and Sydney were together,
00:07:47
and it didn't even really feel like a fan theory.
00:07:50
It felt like that was just the truth.
00:07:53
Yeah.
00:07:54
So I'm kind of sad.
00:07:56
Why?
00:07:57
Why would his name be Mark?
00:07:59
I mean, granted, there are more than one person's people named
00:08:02
Mark.
00:08:03
In movies, there's one person with every name.
00:08:06
You don't get doubles.
00:08:08
Maybe it's setting up the next movie
00:08:10
to have some sort of miscommunication,
00:08:14
like somebody goes after the wrong Mark or something.
00:08:17
Well, we don't even know if Patrick Dempsey's in it.
00:08:19
Everybody thought he was coming back,
00:08:21
but there's no confirmation.
00:08:22
So we don't even know, because apparently he's
00:08:26
working on a different movie that he was already contracted
00:08:29
for.
00:08:29
Thanksgiving 2.
00:08:31
I think so.
00:08:31
Yeah.
00:08:34
Anyways, there's a lot of choices
00:08:36
being made in that series.
00:08:39
Are they good?
00:08:40
Probably not.
00:08:42
Should we talk about The Shining?
00:08:44
As soon as possible.
00:08:45
OK.
00:08:47
OK.
00:08:48
I've got a really long summary for both movies.
00:08:51
Well, together, they make one long summary.
00:08:53
So I'm going to get into it.
00:08:54
In case you forgot, here's some quick overview of The Shining.
00:08:59
And it's sequel, Dr. Sleep.
00:09:01
So first, we're going to talk about The Shining, which
00:09:03
is the 1980 movie adaptation of Stephen King's novel directed
00:09:06
by Stanley Kubrick and starring Jack Nicholson, Shelley Duvall,
00:09:10
Danny Lloyd, and Scatman Crothers.
00:09:12
Jack Torrance, played by Jack Nicholson,
00:09:14
becomes the winter caretaker at the isolated Overlook Hotel
00:09:18
in Colorado, hoping to cure his writer's block.
00:09:21
He settles in along with his wife, Wendy, played by Shelley,
00:09:23
and his son, Danny, played by Danny Lloyd, who
00:09:26
is plagued by psychic premonitions.
00:09:29
As Jack's writing goes nowhere and Danny's visions become
00:09:32
more disturbing, Jack discovers the hotel's dark secrets
00:09:34
and begins to unravel into a homicidal maniac hellbent
00:09:37
on terrorizing his family.
00:09:40
This is widely regarded as one of the best horror
00:09:42
movies of all time, one of the best movies of all time.
00:09:45
It has an 8.4 out of 10 on IMDB, an 83% critics, and 93%
00:09:50
audience score on Rotten Tomatoes.
00:09:52
Also, one thing I didn't mention,
00:09:53
it had a $19 million budget, pretty large budget
00:09:57
for that time, and made $45 million to the box office.
00:10:01
Then we're going to dive into the sequel, another adaptation
00:10:04
of a Stephen King work called Doctor Sleep.
00:10:07
Mike Flanagan, who we all know and love,
00:10:09
took this one on writing and directing.
00:10:11
It stars Ewan McGregor, Kylie Koran, and Rebecca Ferguson.
00:10:15
Struggling with alcoholism, Dan Torrance,
00:10:17
the son from the first movie, remains
00:10:19
traumatized by the sinister events that occurred
00:10:21
at the Overlook Hotel when he was a child.
00:10:24
His hope for a peaceful existence
00:10:25
soon becomes shattered when he meets
00:10:27
Abra, a teen who shares his extra century gift of the Shine.
00:10:30
Together, they form an unlikely alliance
00:10:32
to battle the true knot, a cult whose members try
00:10:35
to feed off the shine of innocence and become immortal.
00:10:38
This movie had a $45 million budget
00:10:40
and grossed $72 million worldwide.
00:10:43
It was also very well received, even by Stephen King himself.
00:10:46
It has a 7.3 out of 10 on IMDB and a 78% critics
00:10:50
and 89% audience score on Rotten Tomatoes.
00:10:54
I wrote IMDB, so I had to reverse my brain.
00:10:59
Quick agility.
00:11:01
I like that.
00:11:02
Yeah, so anyway, that's the Shining in Doctor Sleep.
00:11:06
Pretty indie films.
00:11:07
There wasn't a lot of information on these,
00:11:09
so kind of scraping by here.
00:11:12
No, I'm kidding.
00:11:12
There's 987 facts for both of these.
00:11:16
Yeah, far too much information.
00:11:18
Far too much information.
00:11:20
Yeah.
00:11:22
Well, there's what, like two, three, at least documentaries
00:11:26
about The Shining?
00:11:27
Yeah, if not more.
00:11:29
Yeah.
00:11:29
Yeah.
00:11:30
It's certainly a film of all the films.
00:11:34
It's one of them.
00:11:35
Yeah.
00:11:36
People love The Shining.
00:11:37
Yeah.
00:11:38
I have a little list, a collection of all of the places
00:11:42
this movie has been ranked over time.
00:11:46
It's been included among Letterboxd's, how do you say
00:11:51
that, included among Letterboxd's top 250 horror films.
00:11:58
That's a rough one to say.
00:11:59
Yeah, that's hard.
00:12:01
It's in the official top 250 narrative feature
00:12:04
films on Letterboxd also.
00:12:06
In 2012, it was ranked the 75th greatest
00:12:09
film of all time in sight and sound directors' poll.
00:12:12
It's included among the American Film Institute's 2001 list
00:12:16
of the 100 most heart-pounding American movies.
00:12:18
We're getting really granular here.
00:12:20
It's included among the 100, sorry,
00:12:23
1001 movies you must see before you die,
00:12:25
added by Stephen Schneider, who's
00:12:27
voted the ninth scariest film of all time by EW.
00:12:31
And the Here's Johnny line was voted as the number 68 movie
00:12:35
quote of all time by the American Film Institute out
00:12:37
of 100.
00:12:38
And the number 36 of the 100 greatest movie lines
00:12:42
by Premier Magazine.
00:12:43
Wow.
00:12:44
Yeah, it's a lot.
00:12:45
And that wasn't even all of them.
00:12:46
It's just highlighting how impactful this movie has been.
00:12:52
Yeah, I mean, it's iconic.
00:12:54
Yep.
00:12:55
And the Here's Johnny line almost wasn't even in it.
00:12:58
Yeah.
00:12:59
Kubrick almost cut it because he didn't know the reference.
00:13:03
I still don't know the reference.
00:13:05
It's a shining reference as far as I'm concerned.
00:13:08
No.
00:13:10
It was a reference to, I think, the Johnny Carson show.
00:13:13
Here's Johnny.
00:13:14
Yeah.
00:13:17
But yeah, Kubrick was, he's from England.
00:13:19
So he didn't watch the show.
00:13:22
He had no idea what Jack Nicholson was referencing.
00:13:25
So he almost cut it out.
00:13:27
That's probably why they changed it in every country too.
00:13:30
Yeah, they changed it in a lot of countries
00:13:32
because it just didn't, it didn't resonate.
00:13:34
People didn't understand it.
00:13:36
Yeah.
00:13:37
Yeah, this, I don't think it was as highly regarded
00:13:41
when it first came out as it is now, which makes sense.
00:13:46
I mean, I feel like when this movie first came out,
00:13:49
a lot of people who were going to see it
00:13:51
were probably fans of the book.
00:13:53
And because there's so many deviations
00:13:55
and Stephen King himself hated this movie,
00:13:59
a lot of people probably didn't like it as much as they do now.
00:14:02
Now I think a lot of people have seen the movie
00:14:04
and maybe haven't read the book, myself included.
00:14:07
Resonates a little bit differently.
00:14:09
Yeah.
00:14:09
And I get it because I'm deaf.
00:14:10
I'm the number one hater of movies that fuck up my books.
00:14:14
Yeah, there were a lot of, even some of the most iconic scenes
00:14:18
in the movie aren't even in the book.
00:14:20
Yeah.
00:14:21
So just the kind of creative liberties that they took.
00:14:23
There's a, I have a list.
00:14:25
You want me to go down another list?
00:14:27
Here's Johnny scene.
00:14:29
Yeah.
00:14:29
Dick is not killed in the book.
00:14:31
No spoiler, sorry.
00:14:34
Jack uses an axe in the book.
00:14:37
He's using a croquet mallet.
00:14:39
The maze is not a part of the book.
00:14:41
All work and no play makes Jack and Jill boys from Stanley
00:14:45
Kubrick.
00:14:46
The kissing scene between Jack and the naked woman.
00:14:51
The two sisters not in the book, or at least them talking
00:14:56
to Danny is not in the book.
00:14:58
Yeah, I think they are in the book.
00:14:59
I don't know if their role is the same.
00:15:03
OK.
00:15:05
I could be lying, though.
00:15:06
I haven't read it.
00:15:07
Yeah, neither of us have read this book.
00:15:10
So take this with a grain of salt.
00:15:12
I own them both.
00:15:13
I'm going to read them.
00:15:15
Just give me a minute.
00:15:16
Yeah, yeah.
00:15:18
Long minute.
00:15:19
Yeah.
00:15:23
And then three huge ones.
00:15:25
The blood coming out of the elevator, not in the book.
00:15:28
That was creative liberty.
00:15:30
The tricycle, Danny riding his tricycle around the hotel.
00:15:33
And Jack freezing to death.
00:15:36
Which can I just say, the shot of him, it's a meme or whatever.
00:15:42
I thought that was from an Adam Sandler movie or some shit.
00:15:45
I totally forgot it was from The Shining.
00:15:47
No, it is from The Shining.
00:15:48
It looks like it could be from an Adam Sandler movie.
00:15:51
Yeah.
00:15:52
It is quite the choice in a serious movie.
00:15:56
Yeah, like Mr. D's or something.
00:15:57
Yeah, this movie is kind of, there's
00:15:59
a couple of moments that are kind of funny.
00:16:01
The guy getting blown by the furry.
00:16:04
That was fun.
00:16:05
Excuse me?
00:16:06
Did you miss that part?
00:16:08
What did you say?
00:16:10
A guy getting blown by a furry.
00:16:12
You heard me.
00:16:13
Oh, shit.
00:16:15
I did hear you.
00:16:16
It's near the end when Wendy's running through
00:16:19
and she looks into the room.
00:16:20
And there's a guy in a dog costume blowing the grainy guy,
00:16:25
I think.
00:16:26
The previous hotel guy who's haunting Jack.
00:16:30
You missed that part?
00:16:31
You got to do a rewatch, babe.
00:16:33
I guess so.
00:16:34
It's worth it just for that.
00:16:35
Yeah, that's actually explained in the book,
00:16:38
but they didn't explain it at all in the movie.
00:16:40
So it just feels very out of place.
00:16:42
I think it's hilarious.
00:16:44
Big fan of that choice, including that and none
00:16:46
of the backstory is peak comedy.
00:16:50
Wow.
00:16:51
Yeah.
00:16:52
Damn, sad I missed it.
00:16:53
I've seen this movie multiple times.
00:16:54
Yeah, I don't know how you don't have
00:16:57
that seared into your memory.
00:16:58
Yeah, I got it.
00:16:59
Yeah, well.
00:17:00
Yeah.
00:17:01
I didn't remember Bathtub Lady either.
00:17:04
Oh.
00:17:05
I didn't remember how the movie got its name.
00:17:08
Oh.
00:17:09
I didn't remember that it was called The Shine
00:17:11
or what he was doing was shining.
00:17:12
I didn't remember that.
00:17:14
Yep.
00:17:15
Yeah, Danny's got The Shine.
00:17:17
Yeah.
00:17:18
Yeah.
00:17:20
I think there were smaller differences too.
00:17:23
The room number is not the same.
00:17:25
It's 217 in the book.
00:17:27
Yeah, I've heard rumor.
00:17:28
I think the rumor is that the hotel that they used
00:17:31
asked them not to use that because they didn't want people
00:17:35
to not want to stay in that room.
00:17:37
Weird.
00:17:38
So apparently Stanley Kubrick used 237
00:17:40
because that wasn't, it didn't go up that high
00:17:43
in the actual hotel.
00:17:45
Oh.
00:17:47
That's the rumor.
00:17:48
I don't, I couldn't find anything that verifies
00:17:50
that that's why it was changed, but that would make sense.
00:17:52
Yeah.
00:17:53
I don't see why it would change in any other capacity.
00:17:57
I mean, I bet now they have a 237
00:18:00
and they sell it out all the time.
00:18:02
If I had to guess.
00:18:03
I think they said that that is in the rumor
00:18:05
that that's now the most requested room.
00:18:07
Yeah.
00:18:08
Why wouldn't it be?
00:18:09
Yeah, seriously.
00:18:11
Yeah.
00:18:13
Yeah, Stephen King hated it.
00:18:14
He didn't like the changes.
00:18:16
Didn't like Kubrick.
00:18:18
He said he was happy he outlived him,
00:18:19
which is a crazy thing to say after someone dies.
00:18:21
That is a crazy thing to say.
00:18:23
But I respect it, I guess.
00:18:26
Yeah.
00:18:28
He even went so far to say as Stanley Kubrick,
00:18:32
Stephen King said, I think he set out to make a film
00:18:34
that hurts people.
00:18:36
Yeah.
00:18:37
What a crazy fucking thing to say.
00:18:38
This is your source material, Stephen.
00:18:41
I think so.
00:18:43
What I've gathered from it is that the main difference
00:18:48
that I think bothered King the most was Jack's portrayal.
00:18:54
OK.
00:18:55
Because Stephen King is a recovering alcoholic.
00:18:59
And I think he put a lot of personal things
00:19:02
into The Shining.
00:19:03
I think it's a very, very personal book for him
00:19:06
about how dangerous alcoholism is
00:19:09
and how you can slip into that very easily.
00:19:12
And he felt that this movie just portrayed him
00:19:15
as an always evil person.
00:19:17
And that that wasn't as portrayed as well.
00:19:21
So I think he had some empathy for Jack
00:19:24
in the original novel, whereas that's kind of missing in this.
00:19:29
And if that is a very personal journey,
00:19:31
I could see how that might be a delicate topic for you.
00:19:35
Yeah.
00:19:36
Well, two things.
00:19:37
I think, one, Mike Flanagan sort of recovered that for him
00:19:42
in the AA speech that Danny gives,
00:19:47
saying my dad tried so hard to get clean for me and my mom
00:19:54
or whatever.
00:19:56
But two, Stephen King also didn't like the way that Stanley
00:20:01
portrayed Wendy Torrance either.
00:20:03
No.
00:20:04
So I think Stephen King just really doesn't like this movie.
00:20:09
But no, he thinks that Wendy Torrance's portrayal
00:20:12
was extremely misogynistic, one of the most misogynistic
00:20:14
characters ever to be put in film.
00:20:17
And he said that she's just there to scream and be stupid,
00:20:20
which there's some merit to that.
00:20:23
She doesn't do a whole lot.
00:20:25
Yeah, I don't think he's necessarily wrong about it.
00:20:28
Do I think it's one of the most misogynistic portrayals ever?
00:20:31
No.
00:20:32
But do I think that she could have been a stronger character?
00:20:35
Yes.
00:20:36
And that has nothing to do with Shelley Duvall.
00:20:38
She did a fantastic job, I think she especially
00:20:41
under the circumstances that she was in,
00:20:43
which I'm sure we'll get into.
00:20:46
But yeah, I do think that she could have been stronger.
00:20:50
She was very fragile.
00:20:51
Yeah.
00:20:53
Apparently, Jack Nicholson wanted Jessica Lang
00:20:55
to play her when he had only read the book,
00:20:58
because she's described as this blonde woman who's
00:21:03
former cheerleader, never really had any struggles in her life.
00:21:08
That was who she was in the book.
00:21:10
That's why what happens in the hotel is so traumatic for her,
00:21:13
because it's the first time anything's gone wrong.
00:21:16
But yeah, Kubrick had to convince him
00:21:20
that Shelley Duvall was right for the part,
00:21:22
because of his vision of who she was.
00:21:24
Yeah.
00:21:25
Wow.
00:21:27
Oh, Stanley.
00:21:28
Yeah.
00:21:29
But I do like that it seems like Jack Nicholson stood up for her.
00:21:34
He's corroborated that Stanley Kubrick was worse to her
00:21:37
than anyone else on set.
00:21:39
And he said that he thinks that this is the best performance
00:21:42
he's seen of a woman.
00:21:43
It's the hardest thing that anyone's had to do.
00:21:45
So I think Nicholson kind of has maybe tried
00:21:49
to have her back a little bit.
00:21:50
That's nice of him.
00:21:52
Yeah.
00:21:53
He's, I don't know how to feel about him.
00:21:55
Me neither.
00:21:57
He just strikes me as not a good guy.
00:22:00
Oh, OK.
00:22:00
But maybe he is.
00:22:01
I don't know.
00:22:02
Yeah, I don't know.
00:22:04
The one thing that I know about Jack Nicholson,
00:22:06
and I've told so many people this because I think it's crazy,
00:22:09
and honestly, almost apologies to that man,
00:22:11
because why am I spreading his personal business?
00:22:13
But he thought that his mom was his sister his whole life.
00:22:18
Did you know this?
00:22:19
That's crazy.
00:22:21
Yeah.
00:22:21
So he grew up because his mom had him
00:22:23
when she was very, very young.
00:22:25
And so back in the day, that's what you did.
00:22:27
Yeah.
00:22:28
So he was raised by his grandparents.
00:22:30
He thought that they were his parents
00:22:32
and his mom was his sister his entire life
00:22:36
until he became famous.
00:22:38
And some reporter dug that up, figured it out,
00:22:42
published a story, and that's how he found out.
00:22:45
And at that point, all three of them were dead.
00:22:48
He couldn't even talk to them about it.
00:22:50
Oh, dear.
00:22:51
Is that not the most insane, tragic thing?
00:22:54
That is crazy.
00:22:55
That is crazy.
00:22:56
I think about it daily.
00:22:57
That's my Roman Empire.
00:22:59
Wow.
00:23:00
Yeah.
00:23:01
Poor guy.
00:23:02
Right?
00:23:03
Now you kind of like him.
00:23:05
I mean, I don't dislike him.
00:23:07
I just am cautious.
00:23:08
That's fair.
00:23:09
Just based solely on the way he looks.
00:23:11
See, that's why I kind of agree with Stephen King,
00:23:15
because Jack Nicholson just gives off unhinged energy, period.
00:23:19
Yeah.
00:23:20
So it isn't really.
00:23:22
And granted, I mean, I watched this movie not
00:23:24
when it first came out.
00:23:25
So I had years more of work of him
00:23:29
to watch before I saw this, right?
00:23:31
But I do think you watch the beginning and you're like,
00:23:35
yeah, it's Jack Nicholson.
00:23:36
Yeah.
00:23:37
Of course he's going to go crazy and try
00:23:39
to kill his wife and kid.
00:23:40
So I do kind of understand wanting that dissent
00:23:43
to be a little bit more subtle.
00:23:45
And not to say Jack Nicholson did a great job.
00:23:47
This is a great performance.
00:23:49
Yeah.
00:23:49
But he just can't play a sane person.
00:23:53
He doesn't have it in him.
00:23:54
I agree.
00:23:55
It'd be like trying to cast Nicholas Cage in a sane person
00:23:58
role.
00:23:59
Yeah.
00:24:00
But he was supposed to be scary.
00:24:04
He was supposed to be scary.
00:24:06
And he was more punchable than anything.
00:24:11
It was just annoying.
00:24:13
Calm down, you know?
00:24:15
Yeah, but I'm also a bitch.
00:24:17
Like if my husband spoke to me the way
00:24:18
that he did 40 minutes into this thing, bye.
00:24:21
Yeah.
00:24:22
Packing up the kids.
00:24:24
Divorce, babes.
00:24:25
Divorce.
00:24:26
Yeah.
00:24:26
I mean, yeah.
00:24:28
Yeah.
00:24:28
But I also think maybe that's why they needed Wendy
00:24:32
to be a little bit of a weaker character.
00:24:34
Yeah, like why hadn't she already left?
00:24:36
Right.
00:24:37
At the point that things devolved.
00:24:40
Yeah.
00:24:41
Also, I saw that Kubrick, sorry, I
00:24:45
was trying to find the fact, but Kubrick
00:24:48
thought about casting Robert De Niro,
00:24:51
but then saw him in Taxi Driver and said,
00:24:54
no, he's not crazy enough.
00:24:57
And then also thought about casting Robin Williams,
00:24:59
but then saw him in Mork and Mindy and said,
00:25:02
he's too crazy.
00:25:04
So I think that's kind of funny.
00:25:07
The only person I saw that he wanted to cast
00:25:09
was Chris Christopherson, which I
00:25:10
think would have been a really good,
00:25:13
he's not necessarily known as explicitly a crazy character,
00:25:18
you know what I mean?
00:25:19
Yeah.
00:25:20
He's got some range on him.
00:25:22
Yeah.
00:25:23
I know King wanted John Boyd.
00:25:25
He was pushing for him.
00:25:27
I used to like him.
00:25:28
I don't think I like him anymore.
00:25:31
No, he got a little Trumpy, right?
00:25:32
Yeah.
00:25:33
Yeah, bummer.
00:25:34
That one movie that he's in with the, it's a book.
00:25:37
It's a book and the cover is red.
00:25:41
And it's about different people.
00:25:44
He dies.
00:25:45
He dies.
00:25:46
He dies.
00:25:47
He thinks he saves the little girl, but he dies.
00:25:49
What's that movie called?
00:25:50
Help.
00:25:51
I have no idea what you're talking about.
00:25:53
Oh my god.
00:25:54
It was like one of my favorite movies as a kid.
00:25:56
That's going to bother me.
00:25:57
Hold on.
00:25:57
I got to look it up.
00:25:58
OK.
00:25:59
It's called, I don't know.
00:26:01
I don't know.
00:26:03
Pearl Harbor.
00:26:04
He's, oh yeah, he's president.
00:26:06
Yeah.
00:26:07
And he's a carnival worker.
00:26:10
The five people you meet in heaven.
00:26:12
Oh.
00:26:13
I've never read or seen that.
00:26:15
Oh, it's good.
00:26:16
It's very good.
00:26:17
Yeah.
00:26:17
Yeah, he's very good.
00:26:18
Is he one of the people that you meet in heaven?
00:26:20
No, he's meeting the people because he dies.
00:26:23
Oh.
00:26:23
But that's kind of a spoiler, so sorry.
00:26:25
Well.
00:26:25
Maybe wait a little while before you watch it.
00:26:27
Retroactive spoiler alert.
00:26:30
Whoops.
00:26:32
Anyways, yeah, that's who Stephen King wanted.
00:26:35
I can see it.
00:26:37
The whole movie is spoiled at the beginning.
00:26:39
You know?
00:26:40
Sure.
00:26:42
Well, because he goes into the, when the hotel manager is
00:26:45
giving Jack the job or whatever.
00:26:48
He's like, oh yeah, the last caretaker
00:26:50
went crazy and killed his wife and kids.
00:26:52
Yeah.
00:26:53
Like, OK, thanks for that.
00:26:55
Yeah, well, I don't know if that's really spoiling it.
00:27:00
I think you're supposed to know that.
00:27:02
It's about how it happens and why it happens, you know?
00:27:06
You think it would have been more fun?
00:27:07
That's supposed to add to the creepy factor of, oh,
00:27:11
this guy went crazy here.
00:27:12
And now you're supposed to see him delve into that.
00:27:15
I think it would have been more fun
00:27:17
if at the end of the movie, there's
00:27:18
like newspaper clippings or something, and it's like 1948,
00:27:22
this man kills his wife and kids at the hotel.
00:27:23
And then 1979, this guy kills his wife and kids.
00:27:26
You know what I mean?
00:27:27
And it's just like a bunch of people
00:27:28
who have killed their wives and kids after.
00:27:31
And you just find out afterwards.
00:27:32
And then the hotel manager is kind of the bad guy
00:27:34
because he knows, but he still goes and hires somebody.
00:27:38
You know what I mean?
00:27:39
Yeah.
00:27:40
You should make your own adaptation.
00:27:43
I will.
00:27:43
Let's see if he'll like it.
00:27:45
Maybe.
00:27:46
I'll make sure.
00:27:46
I'll be sure of it.
00:27:48
Yeah.
00:27:48
I'll go and get it.
00:27:49
He's very protective of this work.
00:27:51
Yeah, I'll go and get pizza with him like Mike Flanagan did.
00:27:54
Yeah, they were buds.
00:27:55
Yeah, they were buds.
00:27:57
I do kind of appreciate that he convinced Stephen King to do it.
00:28:02
And I do think he tried to toe the line a little bit
00:28:07
between the movie and the books.
00:28:10
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:28:12
One of my favorite fun facts about the movie
00:28:14
is that we're still on The Shining, by the way.
00:28:17
Yeah, sorry.
00:28:18
We're bouncing around a little.
00:28:19
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:28:20
But mainly The Shining.
00:28:21
It's hard to talk about one without talking
00:28:23
about the other.
00:28:24
Yeah.
00:28:26
At the time of its release, the policy of the MPAA
00:28:29
was that blood couldn't be shown in trailers.
00:28:33
Basically, the entire trailer was the blood
00:28:35
coming out of the elevator.
00:28:37
And Kubrick got them.
00:28:40
He basically convinced them that it wasn't blood.
00:28:42
It was rusty water coming out of it.
00:28:45
And they allowed it.
00:28:46
And I think that's really funny.
00:28:48
That is really funny.
00:28:49
Yeah.
00:28:51
MPAA is really dumb.
00:28:53
Yeah.
00:28:54
It doesn't look like rusty water.
00:28:56
No.
00:28:57
It does not.
00:28:58
Yeah.
00:29:00
They didn't do, oh yeah, they did.
00:29:02
I was going to say, they didn't do that scene in Doctor
00:29:05
Slate, but they totally did.
00:29:05
Rebecca Ferguson is the one who sees it.
00:29:08
They did.
00:29:09
And they didn't do it practically.
00:29:10
I guess they used CGI for that.
00:29:12
In the original, they did it practically.
00:29:14
Yes.
00:29:15
Crazy.
00:29:16
Yeah.
00:29:17
I mean, Kubrick's, like, that was this whole thing.
00:29:21
Very particular.
00:29:24
Hundreds of takes for scenes.
00:29:26
I think he needed therapy.
00:29:30
That's not normal behavior.
00:29:32
No.
00:29:33
Perfectionism like that's crazy.
00:29:35
Yeah.
00:29:35
Especially when, I guess, like, Scatman, Crothers,
00:29:38
and obviously Shelley Duvall famously,
00:29:40
were not having a good time filming because of that.
00:29:44
I can't imagine doing 100-some takes for one scene.
00:29:48
Yeah.
00:29:49
No way.
00:29:50
Shelley Duvall's scene where she runs up the stairs.
00:29:53
They did that like 45 times is the equivalent of her running
00:29:56
up the Empire State Building.
00:29:58
Yeah.
00:29:58
By the time they were done.
00:30:00
Yeah, I would not like to do that.
00:30:03
Did he not already have this sort of reputation
00:30:06
of being particular?
00:30:08
And people still did movies with him?
00:30:10
Yeah.
00:30:11
What did he do when he was done?
00:30:12
I can't remember the name of the actor.
00:30:15
Maybe I have it here somewhere.
00:30:16
But the guy that he originally wanted to play, Halloran, Doc,
00:30:23
or not Doc.
00:30:25
Dick?
00:30:25
Dick, Halloran, said no because he didn't
00:30:30
want to work with him again.
00:30:32
Wow.
00:30:33
And that's when Jack Nicholson suggested
00:30:35
Scatman and Crothers because they'd worked together.
00:30:37
So clearly, some people did not want to keep working
00:30:39
with him afterwards.
00:30:40
Yeah, I guess so.
00:30:42
Yeah.
00:30:43
But other Kubrick movies, he did A Clockwork Orange.
00:30:46
Oh, yeah.
00:30:47
He did, I was going to say, Mahal and Dredd,
00:30:49
but that's David Lynch and I just have his movies on my mind.
00:30:53
He did Full Metal Jacket.
00:30:54
He did Barry Lyndon.
00:30:55
He did 2001, A Space Odyssey.
00:30:57
Oh, wow.
00:30:59
Doctor Strange Love.
00:31:00
Yeah.
00:31:01
Well, he must not reuse actors like Mike Flanagan does.
00:31:05
Yeah, Mike Flanagan, he loves putting people
00:31:08
he's already used in movies.
00:31:09
Dude, I was watching the movie.
00:31:10
I was like, oh my god, wow, Mike Flanagan
00:31:12
does know more than five people.
00:31:14
All five of them are in this movie too.
00:31:17
Crazy.
00:31:18
You know what the craziest part about it is?
00:31:21
I also don't think he's ever really miscast anyone.
00:31:24
No.
00:31:25
It's the same five people, but they kill it every time.
00:31:29
Yeah.
00:31:31
It's just like, you know, I don't know.
00:31:33
Give it a rest.
00:31:34
Yeah, it's a little, OK.
00:31:37
This guy again.
00:31:38
This guy again.
00:31:39
Exactly.
00:31:40
Makes me think of like that TikTok challenge, RIP TikTok,
00:31:44
where you do like screenshots.
00:31:45
Like, can you guess this film from one screenshot or five
00:31:49
screenshots or whatever?
00:31:51
And you just do a different character, the same actor
00:31:54
across all the Mike Flanagan films
00:31:55
and just like level impossible.
00:31:57
That would be, yeah.
00:31:58
Yeah.
00:31:59
It's a lot of the same people.
00:32:01
Also, just real quick about the whole using a million takes
00:32:05
for every single scene.
00:32:07
Apparently, right after this film, Scatman and Crothers
00:32:11
did Franco Billy, which is directed by Clint Eastwood.
00:32:15
Wow, I love Clint Eastwood.
00:32:16
Yeah, and he was so grateful because Clint Eastwood
00:32:20
is famous for doing like one take,
00:32:23
not doing any takes at all.
00:32:25
So he was like, hell yeah.
00:32:28
I finally don't have to do this a million times.
00:32:30
Wow.
00:32:31
Also, I just watched Juror number two from Clint Eastwood.
00:32:35
How was it?
00:32:37
It was decent.
00:32:38
Strangely, I think some of those actors
00:32:40
could have used a couple more shots.
00:32:42
Oh, dear.
00:32:43
But you know who didn't?
00:32:44
Who?
00:32:45
The lead actor, Nicholas Holt.
00:32:48
Wow.
00:32:48
He's in every movie of 2024, and I'm here for it.
00:32:52
The fact that Clint Eastwood is still alive
00:32:54
is the biggest miracle about that movie coming out in 2024.
00:32:57
94 years old, he directed it.
00:32:59
Yeah, he's old.
00:33:00
He was old when I saw my first R-rated movie in theaters.
00:33:04
Yeah.
00:33:05
It was 20 years ago.
00:33:08
Don't say it looks like that.
00:33:10
Yeah.
00:33:11
What else about The Shining?
00:33:13
Or should we move on to Doctor Sleep?
00:33:14
Have we talked about The Shining enough?
00:33:16
No, I got some fun facts, some more fun facts.
00:33:22
The theme was adapted from one bar of Clockwork Orange theme.
00:33:32
And John Williams was going to provide the score.
00:33:36
Fucking shame he didn't, because that would have slapped.
00:33:40
But then Stanley decided to go with a bunch
00:33:42
of different other composers.
00:33:44
I don't know.
00:33:45
But yeah, what could have been?
00:33:47
Yeah.
00:33:48
John Williams needs to do more horror.
00:33:50
Agreed.
00:33:52
One fun fact that I had is that when The Shining first came out,
00:33:58
it was nominated for two Golden Razzie awards, which are
00:34:01
basically anti-awards, saying that you did a shit job.
00:34:06
Yeah.
00:34:07
For people who don't know.
00:34:08
But it was worst actress for Shelley Duvall
00:34:10
and worst director for Stanley Kubrick.
00:34:13
It lost both.
00:34:15
No, I think that that means that they lost.
00:34:19
They didn't win, even though winning is bad.
00:34:22
Right.
00:34:23
Yeah.
00:34:24
Anyways, but in March of 2022, the Razzie Committee
00:34:29
officially rescinded Duvall's nomination.
00:34:32
They took it back.
00:34:33
They said, never mind.
00:34:35
They said their official statement was,
00:34:37
we have since discovered that Duvall's performance was
00:34:39
impacted by Stanley Kubrick's treatment of her
00:34:40
throughout the production.
00:34:42
And that retraction came with another retraction
00:34:46
that they did for Bruce Willis winning for worst Bruce Willis
00:34:50
performance in 2021.
00:34:51
It was like a whole separate category,
00:34:53
because they found out that he had his cognitive brain issue.
00:34:58
And so they rescinded both of those in light of that.
00:35:05
Nice of them.
00:35:06
Yeah.
00:35:07
The bully award.
00:35:08
Yeah, I think they probably knew about Shelley's thing
00:35:12
much sooner than that.
00:35:13
So it's interesting that it took another oopsie daisy
00:35:16
for them to retract it.
00:35:17
But at least they retracted it, because I
00:35:20
don't think she deserved it.
00:35:21
No, I mean, I didn't have a problem with her acting at all.
00:35:24
I had a problem with her writing.
00:35:26
Her writing?
00:35:27
Yeah, like the writing of the character.
00:35:29
Oh, yeah.
00:35:30
I thought you meant.
00:35:31
No.
00:35:32
No, sorry.
00:35:33
I was like, she doesn't write at all.
00:35:35
He's the writer.
00:35:37
Wendy, the writing of Wendy.
00:35:39
Stanley Kubrick's writing of Wendy.
00:35:42
Agreed.
00:35:43
Yeah, too bad he didn't win.
00:35:44
He deserved it.
00:35:46
What an ass.
00:35:46
Hate that guy.
00:35:48
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:35:48
I just don't understand.
00:35:50
Like, yes, this movie is iconic.
00:35:54
It's a well-made movie.
00:35:56
But you can do that without treating actors
00:35:59
the way that he did?
00:36:01
Yeah, you're fucking hiring them to do a job.
00:36:03
Like, you should trust them to do that job.
00:36:08
Well, and also just like the directed worse treatment
00:36:11
of Shelley Duvall was crazy.
00:36:13
Yeah.
00:36:14
You don't have to make a traumatic set
00:36:16
to make a great movie.
00:36:17
Yeah.
00:36:17
Do you think anybody was traumatized
00:36:19
during the making of Mean Girls?
00:36:20
I don't think so.
00:36:21
And that movie is just as good as this one, if not better.
00:36:24
So the fact that it took 56 weeks to film this movie,
00:36:29
that's insane.
00:36:31
That's more than a year.
00:36:33
Movies don't take that long to film.
00:36:35
No.
00:36:36
Well, they do when you're doing 100 plus shots of everything.
00:36:38
Well, as I'm saying, like, that's crazy.
00:36:42
So unnecessary.
00:36:43
And apparently, there were so many changes
00:36:45
to the script while they were filming
00:36:47
that Jack Nicholson would get the script
00:36:49
and just throw it away because he knew another one was coming.
00:36:52
And Kubrick was all, oh, well, we
00:36:54
had to do so many takes because Jack Nicholson was learning
00:36:56
his lines the day of.
00:36:57
Baby, you gave them to him yesterday.
00:36:59
What do you mean?
00:37:00
Of course he was learning them the day of.
00:37:02
Wow.
00:37:03
Very unlikable, Stanley Kubrick.
00:37:05
I agree.
00:37:06
I do also, though, like all the conspiracy theories that
00:37:09
have come out of this movie.
00:37:11
Oh, I haven't heard them.
00:37:12
Oh, yeah, there's a lot.
00:37:14
Well, there's just a lot of rumors surrounding it.
00:37:17
Sure.
00:37:17
But my favorite one is that this is somehow evidence
00:37:20
that he filmed the faking of the moon landing,
00:37:23
which is a wild conclusion to make.
00:37:26
But I do think that that's really funny.
00:37:29
And it leads to my favorite conspiracy theory, which
00:37:32
is that he was hired to shoot the filming of the moon landing
00:37:36
or the faking of the moon landing.
00:37:38
But he's such a perfectionist.
00:37:39
He required that they film on location.
00:37:42
That's crazy.
00:37:43
I think that's the funniest conspiracy theory I've ever
00:37:45
heard.
00:37:45
That's not a real conspiracy theory.
00:37:46
That's a joke.
00:37:47
It's my conspiracy theory.
00:37:49
But that would be something he would do.
00:37:54
Yeah.
00:37:55
We got to go to the moon to fake it.
00:37:58
Yeah.
00:37:58
To be clear, the moon landing happened,
00:38:00
and it was not filmed by Stanley Kubrick.
00:38:03
Filmed by a walker truck.
00:38:04
Tell us your moon landing conspiracy theories
00:38:07
in the comments, please.
00:38:10
My cousin believes that the moon landing happened,
00:38:12
but that they didn't film it, which I think is interesting.
00:38:15
I hadn't heard that one before.
00:38:17
And so Stanley Kubrick directed it?
00:38:19
Well, so he thinks the footage is fake,
00:38:21
but that they did go to the moon.
00:38:23
OK.
00:38:24
I think that's a nice balance between the theories.
00:38:29
Yeah.
00:38:29
I might even believe that.
00:38:32
He's convincing people.
00:38:34
I'll have to let him know.
00:38:36
All right, I feel like we should do it.
00:38:38
What else?
00:38:39
What else?
00:38:39
Do you have anything else before we dive into?
00:38:43
Yeah.
00:38:43
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:38:44
It was really hot when they were filming this.
00:38:47
Yep.
00:38:47
So the snow's fake.
00:38:48
It's a mixture of salt and crushed styrofoam,
00:38:55
which you can sort of tell that it's not snow just because it's
00:38:58
not wet.
00:39:00
Yeah.
00:39:00
Yeah.
00:39:01
Not really shiny.
00:39:03
Yeah.
00:39:04
But I mean, the movie still felt cold.
00:39:06
I mean.
00:39:07
Very.
00:39:08
Also, one other thought that I had just kind of while watching
00:39:11
is I do think that Danny is the creepiest kid that we've seen
00:39:15
so far.
00:39:16
Really?
00:39:16
I think so, yeah.
00:39:18
OK.
00:39:18
And Danny Lloyd was not told that this was a horror movie.
00:39:24
He thought it was a drama.
00:39:25
I mean, he was only like seven at the time of filming,
00:39:27
so I don't know how much he would have understood
00:39:29
one way or another.
00:39:30
But they used dummies of him in some scenes
00:39:36
to kind of protect him from Shelley DeVille having
00:39:38
to scream or Jack Daniels.
00:39:42
Jack Nicholson running after him or whatever.
00:39:45
They used dummies to kind of protect him from that,
00:39:48
which is nice.
00:39:49
And at least, at least, Stanley Kubrick
00:39:51
had that going for him.
00:39:52
Yeah, I have heard that he was very protective over him
00:39:55
and making sure that it was a good experience for him.
00:39:59
Good for him.
00:40:00
Which apparently worked because he grew up.
00:40:02
He's a professor at a biology community college,
00:40:04
and he apparently has threatened to fail students
00:40:08
for asking him about it because he's like,
00:40:10
I don't remember any of it.
00:40:11
So.
00:40:12
Oh.
00:40:13
He was in Dr. Sleep.
00:40:15
Yeah, he came out of retirement.
00:40:17
What a great segue.
00:40:18
That is a great segue.
00:40:19
Let's talk about.
00:40:21
All three of the leads retired by the time Dr. Sleep came out.
00:40:25
I know that.
00:40:26
Jack Daniels?
00:40:26
Why do I keep saying Jack Daniels?
00:40:28
I don't know, Katie.
00:40:30
I know exactly why I do, actually.
00:40:32
I know exactly why.
00:40:33
Because my ex used to work at the Jack Daniels
00:40:36
lounge in the Hollanda Center where the Ducks play,
00:40:40
and we would see Jack Nicholson there all the time.
00:40:44
There you go.
00:40:45
That's why.
00:40:46
Yeah, Jack Nicholson is retired.
00:40:48
He hasn't done a movie in 15 years.
00:40:51
Oh, god.
00:40:51
I didn't know.
00:40:52
Yep, he's retired.
00:40:53
Shelley Duvall was retired.
00:40:54
She did come out of retirement in 2023 to do a movie.
00:41:01
And Daniel Lloyd was obviously retired.
00:41:05
I don't know if he did anything.
00:41:06
I don't think he did.
00:41:07
Yeah, I think this is his only, or his last movie.
00:41:10
But he did come out to do a cameo in this.
00:41:12
So.
00:41:13
Yeah, he was part of the Knot.
00:41:15
The True Knot.
00:41:17
I don't like that word anymore.
00:41:18
Why?
00:41:20
Just has some connotations.
00:41:23
The word Knot?
00:41:25
It's for after podcasts, I think.
00:41:28
Oh.
00:41:29
It's like a book talk thing.
00:41:31
Oh.
00:41:32
OK.
00:41:34
So curious now.
00:41:35
You remind me later.
00:41:37
OK.
00:41:38
Maybe somebody could put it in the comments.
00:41:40
If you know about it.
00:41:42
Book talk people help.
00:41:44
There are people who will know about it.
00:41:48
Oh.
00:41:49
Anyway, OK, Dr. Sleep.
00:41:51
Rebecca Ferguson's kind of typecast
00:41:53
is this like leader of a cult.
00:41:56
I'm assuming that's a Dune reference, yeah.
00:41:59
She's much better in Dune.
00:42:01
She's kind of insufferable in this.
00:42:03
Oh, I love her in this.
00:42:05
Yeah, she's like, huh.
00:42:06
Rose the Hap step on me challenge.
00:42:09
And speaking of which.
00:42:10
Speak.
00:42:12
What is with the fucking names?
00:42:15
Fucking snake bite Andrew and Grandpappy and Top Hat Rachel
00:42:20
or whatever.
00:42:21
Andrew.
00:42:23
I don't fucking know.
00:42:24
Her name is Andy.
00:42:27
I think it's just like fun little nicknames
00:42:30
that they have for each other.
00:42:32
I don't like it.
00:42:33
Oh, I thought it was kind of fun.
00:42:35
For a cult, I guess.
00:42:37
Yeah.
00:42:38
What a good cult.
00:42:40
Is there anything else you'd like to complain about this movie?
00:42:43
A lot.
00:42:43
Oh, OK.
00:42:45
Yeah.
00:42:46
Not a fan, huh?
00:42:47
Well, I just know that Stephen King watched Monsters
00:42:51
Incorporated and then 10 years later
00:42:53
decided to write this book.
00:42:55
Yeah, a lot of people have found similarities between it.
00:42:59
Yeah.
00:43:00
Scream canisters, that's Monsters Inc.
00:43:03
Yeah.
00:43:04
Is there anything else you want to complain about?
00:43:07
Let me just check my notes.
00:43:08
OK.
00:43:09
No.
00:43:10
Great.
00:43:10
OK.
00:43:14
This isn't a complaint, exactly.
00:43:16
I will say that I think what made The Shining so compelling
00:43:19
is that there wasn't really a tangible entity
00:43:23
that we were battling with.
00:43:26
It was more of a this is in your head kind of thing.
00:43:29
OK.
00:43:30
And so it wasn't exactly like Dr. Sleep just
00:43:34
made it too tangible, I think.
00:43:37
The weird spiritualism, the weird humanization of the villain,
00:43:43
there wasn't really a human villain.
00:43:45
There wasn't a villain at all really in The Shining.
00:43:49
It was more a subconscious thing.
00:43:51
I don't know.
00:43:52
It just made it a little bit kitschy, you know?
00:43:56
It wasn't as grounded.
00:43:59
You know?
00:43:59
I don't know.
00:44:00
OK.
00:44:01
I don't know what I'm trying to say.
00:44:02
Dr. Sleep hater over here.
00:44:04
I'm not a hater.
00:44:06
Yeah.
00:44:06
It's just.
00:44:07
I can tell.
00:44:07
It's hard to make a sequel to one of the best
00:44:10
movies of all time, you know?
00:44:11
That's fair.
00:44:12
Yeah.
00:44:13
It is.
00:44:14
I do think he had a very difficult job too,
00:44:16
because he was trying to give Stephen King what he wanted,
00:44:19
but also keep in mind that you're doing a sequel.
00:44:23
You have to make it a sequel of the movie.
00:44:26
Yeah.
00:44:26
And that was like one of Stephen King's biggest objections,
00:44:29
was having the Overlook Hotel in it at all,
00:44:32
because it burns down in the original, in the novel.
00:44:38
And I think the ending of Dr. Sleep
00:44:39
was kind of to give King the ending that he
00:44:42
wanted in the first place.
00:44:44
Yes.
00:44:45
And I think, I don't know, I think Mike Flanagan did
00:44:47
a good job of kind of toeing that line,
00:44:50
helping make it a movie that book fans and movie fans
00:44:54
would like, except for Katie.
00:44:56
I didn't say I didn't like it.
00:44:58
I'm just complaining a lot about it.
00:45:00
Yeah.
00:45:01
I will say, I think that Mike Flanagan,
00:45:06
he has not always done this, because he's
00:45:08
kind of known for his, what's it called, when they talk a lot?
00:45:13
Monologues.
00:45:14
Yeah, monologues.
00:45:16
But I think he did a really good job inferring things
00:45:20
in Dr. Sleep, as opposed to just spelling it out for them,
00:45:24
especially in monologues.
00:45:27
Oh, OK.
00:45:29
Like the communication between Dan and Abra,
00:45:31
didn't really have to be spelled out.
00:45:33
We just got it.
00:45:34
Yeah.
00:45:35
Kind of the, we didn't really need
00:45:38
to know exactly what the True Knot people were.
00:45:42
I don't know.
00:45:43
There.
00:45:43
No, that's fair.
00:45:44
That was an uncomplaint.
00:45:46
An uncomplaint.
00:45:48
Amazing.
00:45:48
I like it.
00:45:50
A lot of the sets for Dr. Sleep, especially the sets
00:45:55
that were from The Shining, were blueprints
00:45:57
that he acquired from Stanley Kubrick's estate.
00:46:00
So he used those blueprints to almost exactly duplicate
00:46:03
the sets that they used on the original.
00:46:05
Yeah.
00:46:06
I think they did a good job.
00:46:08
It definitely read the first one.
00:46:11
Yeah, and they digitally aged some of them.
00:46:14
Yeah, they used a couple, I think three shops,
00:46:17
were actually reused from the original.
00:46:20
So they degraded them and recolored them
00:46:22
and used that in there.
00:46:25
Was it Stanley Kubrick, or was it Mike Fenn?
00:46:27
It was probably Stanley Kubrick, who
00:46:28
learned how to fly a helicopter so they
00:46:30
could shoot their own scenes.
00:46:31
That was Kubrick.
00:46:32
That was Kubrick.
00:46:32
That sounds like something he would do.
00:46:34
Right as I said it out loud, I was like, oh.
00:46:36
Yeah.
00:46:36
It's the perfectionist.
00:46:38
Definitely a Stanley thing.
00:46:40
Apparently, they had a lot of trouble
00:46:42
with the cat, whose name was Azzy, short for Asriel,
00:46:47
the angel of death.
00:46:50
But they called him bonkers the death cat and asshole.
00:46:58
Yeah, I like that.
00:47:00
Asshole.
00:47:00
Yeah, and they actually used two cats, a younger one
00:47:02
and an older one, and they were both equally difficult.
00:47:05
Yeah.
00:47:06
Terrible to work with.
00:47:08
Yeah.
00:47:09
Mike Flanagan has said that the baseball boy scene is
00:47:15
the hardest thing he's ever had to film.
00:47:17
Yeah.
00:47:18
Which checks out, that's a scene that I think
00:47:21
sticks with a lot of people after they watch this.
00:47:22
That was terrible.
00:47:24
I did not like that at all.
00:47:25
Yeah.
00:47:27
He said the performance of Jacob Tremblay during the first take
00:47:31
was so intense that it surprised the other actors.
00:47:34
And Rebecca Ferguson couldn't even
00:47:36
get her lines out after it.
00:47:38
And then when they called cut, Tremblay got up,
00:47:42
started giggling, walked over to his dad,
00:47:44
and got some craft services.
00:47:46
Wow.
00:47:47
He thought it was a fun little thing that he was doing.
00:47:51
Wow.
00:47:52
So it's nice to know that he wasn't traumatized by it.
00:47:54
Yeah, that is nice.
00:47:56
Yeah.
00:47:56
He just traumatized everybody else.
00:47:58
Yeah.
00:47:59
It was a reverse.
00:48:00
Which wasn't the first movie he ever did, Room.
00:48:03
That kid just loves trauma movies.
00:48:06
I don't know.
00:48:07
Oh, you haven't seen it?
00:48:08
No.
00:48:09
Oh, OK.
00:48:10
I thought he was known for comedy TV.
00:48:12
I'm looking.
00:48:13
OK.
00:48:14
Oh, he's in Luca.
00:48:16
Oh, I've never seen him in a guy.
00:48:18
He's in horror movies.
00:48:18
This is a horror movie kid.
00:48:20
This is a horror movie kid.
00:48:21
I just knew that he was in Room was the first thing
00:48:24
I saw him in.
00:48:24
I don't know if it was the first thing he did.
00:48:27
Yeah, that looks like it.
00:48:28
He did Room, Before I Wake, Wonder, The Predator,
00:48:33
interestingly.
00:48:35
And then a couple.
00:48:37
He had Luca and Good Boys.
00:48:39
You should watch Room, though.
00:48:41
Great film.
00:48:42
Is that Natalie Portman?
00:48:44
Nope.
00:48:45
Oh, no.
00:48:45
That's Brie Larson.
00:48:47
That's that one movie.
00:48:48
Yeah, no, I won't be watching that.
00:48:50
Great.
00:48:51
Thanks.
00:48:52
Ha ha ha ha.
00:48:54
It's really good.
00:48:55
No, we can't do that.
00:48:57
It is very upsetting.
00:48:58
Oh, why?
00:49:00
It's so upsetting.
00:49:01
I can't.
00:49:02
Oh, yeah.
00:49:03
It is really upsetting.
00:49:05
You told me the whole plot of the movie.
00:49:06
That's plenty.
00:49:08
Did I?
00:49:09
Yep.
00:49:10
Because you asked?
00:49:11
Yeah.
00:49:12
OK.
00:49:12
I was like, that doesn't sound like me.
00:49:14
But if you ask, but yeah, that sounds like me.
00:49:17
Yeah.
00:49:18
Of course.
00:49:19
Nice.
00:49:20
Ewan McGregor said that he doesn't really like horror movies.
00:49:23
So he didn't see The Shining until he started acting,
00:49:26
because he felt obligated, because it's a classic.
00:49:31
And apparently, part of the reason he got the job in this
00:49:35
was because he himself is a recovering alcoholic.
00:49:38
And so that aspect stuck with him a lot.
00:49:41
And I think he talked to Mike Flanagan about that as well,
00:49:44
which helped him understand why he was a good fit for the role.
00:49:47
Yeah.
00:49:48
I mean, Stephen King also gave him his blessing,
00:49:50
so probably had something to do with that too.
00:49:53
Yeah.
00:49:54
Dan Stevens, Chris Evans, Matt Smith, and Jeremy Renner
00:49:57
were all considered and met with Flanny.
00:50:01
Flanny.
00:50:02
Yeah.
00:50:03
I feel like I can see most of them doing it.
00:50:06
Yeah.
00:50:07
I don't know that Matt Smith has the same look.
00:50:10
Yeah.
00:50:12
I don't know if I've ever seen Matt Smith in anything,
00:50:15
now that I'm thinking about it.
00:50:17
House of Dragon or Doctor Who?
00:50:19
Nope.
00:50:20
OK.
00:50:21
I sure haven't.
00:50:22
Yeah, I've only ever seen him in House of Dragon.
00:50:24
But just to also know he was in Doctor Who.
00:50:27
Yeah.
00:50:28
Yeah, I'm trying to think.
00:50:30
We're looking.
00:50:31
Oh, he was in Morbius.
00:50:33
Oh, I have seen him in something.
00:50:35
Oh, I've seen him in two things.
00:50:37
What things?
00:50:38
Both horror movies.
00:50:39
Last Night in Soho and His House.
00:50:41
I don't remember him in either of those.
00:50:44
Last Night in Soho?
00:50:46
Mm-hmm.
00:50:48
Oh, I do remember him in that.
00:50:51
I don't remember him in His House.
00:50:53
Maybe he's the landlord guy?
00:50:56
Anyways, I have seen him in things.
00:51:00
I guess I'm less familiar with his work than the others.
00:51:02
Yeah.
00:51:03
He's the only one that I just don't
00:51:05
see him as an adult version of Danny Lloyd as a child.
00:51:09
That's fair.
00:51:10
Total topic change.
00:51:13
But in the book, Abra, which Stephen King claims
00:51:18
has nothing to do with Abra Kadabra, that's bullshit.
00:51:21
Yeah, that's a wild thing to say.
00:51:24
What do you mean you named a character Abra
00:51:26
and didn't think of Abra Kadabra?
00:51:28
Yeah.
00:51:29
Or Pokemon, which is based on Abra Kadabra.
00:51:33
Yeah.
00:51:34
Anyway, Abra, as a baby, predicts 9-11.
00:51:39
Yeah.
00:51:40
That's crazy.
00:51:42
Yeah.
00:51:43
As a baby?
00:51:45
That was one of the first fun facts that I deleted.
00:51:48
I was like, I'm not doing this, Stephen King.
00:51:50
What are you talking about?
00:51:51
Yeah.
00:51:53
I'm glad you said it, though.
00:51:54
Yeah.
00:51:55
I mean, I had to.
00:51:57
That's insane.
00:51:58
That is a wild thing to include in the book.
00:52:01
Yeah.
00:52:02
Yeah.
00:52:03
Another thing that was kind of confusing about the movie
00:52:06
was that, is she hiding this from her parents?
00:52:09
Is she not hiding this from her parents?
00:52:11
Do the parents believe her?
00:52:12
Do they not believe her?
00:52:13
The mom asking her, oh, yeah, is Grandma
00:52:15
going to pull through this time implies
00:52:18
that she has had these premonitions.
00:52:23
Yeah, I don't know.
00:52:24
Just kind of threw me off.
00:52:26
It was a little inconsistent.
00:52:27
I think what I gathered from it was
00:52:29
that it was more of this almost like an unspoken thing
00:52:32
in the house, where Abra knew it made her parents uncomfortable.
00:52:37
Her parents knew about it, but wanted to pretend
00:52:39
like it wasn't a thing.
00:52:41
That's what I got from it.
00:52:42
That's fair.
00:52:42
Yeah.
00:52:43
So, yeah.
00:52:45
Happy accident.
00:52:46
Happy accident.
00:52:47
I named her Abra, and she likes magic.
00:52:50
A lot of Rose's accessories are little trinkets
00:52:52
that she took from various children.
00:52:55
I thought that was a fun little touch.
00:52:57
Oh, yeah.
00:52:58
Her bracelets, her hair bands, the toys, the bicycle chain
00:53:01
that's woven into her hair.
00:53:04
She's a little freak.
00:53:06
What do you think they are?
00:53:08
What do you mean?
00:53:09
They're not human.
00:53:11
I think they're kind of what I like vampires-ish,
00:53:16
sucking the souls out of kids.
00:53:18
And you're the vampires.
00:53:20
Ew.
00:53:20
Yeah.
00:53:21
Oh, you don't like that?
00:53:22
No.
00:53:23
Sorry.
00:53:24
You haven't seen Twilight?
00:53:27
Yes, you have.
00:53:28
That's true.
00:53:28
You forced me.
00:53:30
What we do in the shadows.
00:53:32
Not the show, the movie I've seen.
00:53:34
OK, so you know about energy vampires in the movie.
00:53:36
Are the energy vampires in the movie?
00:53:38
I genuinely don't remember.
00:53:40
OK.
00:53:41
I haven't seen that movie since 2015, 10 years probably.
00:53:44
OK.
00:53:45
Well, energy vampires in the show
00:53:47
are the people at work that come to your desk,
00:53:50
and they just talk and talk and talk,
00:53:52
and they really drain your energy.
00:53:54
That's a real thing.
00:53:55
And that's how they feed.
00:53:56
Yeah, I know it really is, literally.
00:53:59
Yeah.
00:53:59
But when I was watching this, I was like, oh my god,
00:54:01
they're like energy vampires.
00:54:02
And then I remembered that what an energy vampire is,
00:54:03
and I'm like, oh, no.
00:54:05
It's not quite the same.
00:54:06
Yeah.
00:54:08
OK, so it's been, I saw Doctor Sleep probably five years ago
00:54:12
for the first time.
00:54:13
When it came out.
00:54:14
Yeah, I've only seen it once.
00:54:16
And that was kind of before I knew who Mike Flanagan was,
00:54:21
or a lot of his work.
00:54:24
Like I'd seen, I think I'd seen Oculus and stuff,
00:54:26
but I didn't know him as a director, really.
00:54:31
And so I didn't know the actors that he
00:54:34
worked with and all of that.
00:54:35
And so when I rewatched this, this morning,
00:54:41
I was looking through the cast, and I was like, wait,
00:54:43
Henry Thomas is the one that plays Jack Nicholson?
00:54:46
And I was like, there's no way.
00:54:48
Because I'm thinking about Henry Thomas from Hill House
00:54:51
and all of the Mike Flanagan work that he's done.
00:54:53
And I was like, no way.
00:54:55
I don't remember it being him.
00:54:58
It was actually good.
00:54:59
I was like, I was convinced that my memory was wrong
00:55:03
and that it wasn't a good portrayal.
00:55:05
But he didn't look like Henry Thomas.
00:55:06
He kind of looked like Jack Nicholson.
00:55:08
He did, yeah.
00:55:09
I know he studied Nicholson's movements and voice a lot
00:55:13
in the original so that he could emulate that.
00:55:15
Apparently he had to shave his head so that his hairline could
00:55:18
match, which I think is really funny.
00:55:22
But yeah, for a second I was like, OK.
00:55:24
OK, Mike Flanagan, stop putting Henry Thomas in everything.
00:55:28
I take it back.
00:55:28
Put him in everything.
00:55:30
He did a great job.
00:55:31
The only reason I knew it was or I could tell it was him
00:55:34
was because I knew it wasn't Jack Nicholson.
00:55:37
Yeah.
00:55:37
And then I was like, well, then who is it?
00:55:39
And then I thought through his rolodex of people.
00:55:41
I was like, the only person he hasn't
00:55:43
used at this point in the movie is him.
00:55:44
So anyway.
00:55:46
Is that Kate Siegel?
00:55:47
Yeah, right?
00:55:49
Yeah, Kate Siegel's not in this one, is she?
00:55:51
No.
00:55:52
That's OK.
00:55:53
Yeah.
00:55:54
Alex Esso, who plays Wendy, I think did.
00:55:58
I mean, she might not maybe look really close to Shelley Duvall,
00:56:02
but her mannerisms and her voice were very good.
00:56:06
Yeah.
00:56:07
I think for a movie that's trying
00:56:08
to recast characters that played iconic roles,
00:56:12
they didn't do a bad job.
00:56:13
No.
00:56:14
And I liked kind of the like it was still sort
00:56:17
of open to interpretation.
00:56:19
Was that supposed to be him at the end?
00:56:22
Like, oh, you're confusing with someone else.
00:56:24
You're confusing with someone else.
00:56:25
Like, I liked that because it was a little bit less like,
00:56:28
you know, trying to recast.
00:56:30
Yeah, exactly.
00:56:30
Exactly.
00:56:31
Yeah.
00:56:33
I think that they did that really well.
00:56:36
Yeah.
00:56:37
Go ahead.
00:56:38
I was just going to say any other fun facts about Dr.
00:56:41
Sleep?
00:56:43
I was going to say the actor who plays Grandpa Flick,
00:56:47
Carol Stryken, he is in another Mike Flanagan movie.
00:56:54
Big surprise.
00:56:55
But the one that he's in is another Stephen King adaptation.
00:56:59
He did Gerald's game.
00:57:00
Oh.
00:57:01
Yeah.
00:57:03
So he has a role in that as well.
00:57:04
Is he Gerald?
00:57:06
No.
00:57:07
Does he play the game?
00:57:09
No.
00:57:09
Yeah.
00:57:10
Gerald is in this movie too, though.
00:57:12
It's Bruce Greenwood.
00:57:14
I love Bruce Greenwood.
00:57:16
He's in it.
00:57:17
But no, Gerald's game is not.
00:57:21
You know what?
00:57:22
We'll get to it eventually.
00:57:23
Yeah.
00:57:23
Figured.
00:57:24
Yeah.
00:57:26
Well, should we rate it?
00:57:28
Sure.
00:57:29
Let's start with The Shining.
00:57:31
Okey dokey.
00:57:31
We forgot to do that thing where we rate in the middle and then.
00:57:35
Yeah.
00:57:36
Well, this is kind of like one continuous story, right?
00:57:39
Yeah.
00:57:39
Ish.
00:57:40
Yeah.
00:57:41
I think it's fine.
00:57:42
OK, well, do you want to do them both in tandem?
00:57:45
Do you want to rate them both scary?
00:57:48
It's up to you.
00:57:49
However you want to do it.
00:57:50
Let's do it that way.
00:57:51
How scary did you think The Shining and Dr. Sleep were?
00:57:56
I gave The Shining a 2, because I
00:57:59
do think it was suspenseful.
00:58:00
And I remember being a little bit creeped out by it
00:58:03
when I first watched it.
00:58:04
Yeah.
00:58:06
And then I gave Dr. Sleep a 1.
00:58:08
I feel like Dr. Sleep has more, it almost feels more
00:58:11
like a superhero movie than a horror movie.
00:58:15
Not a criticism.
00:58:16
That's just the vibes I get from it.
00:58:18
I feel it.
00:58:19
What about you?
00:58:20
Identical ratings.
00:58:22
Wow.
00:58:23
Yeah, I gave Shining a 2.
00:58:26
That's what you said, a 2.
00:58:28
I, this was one.
00:58:30
It's your rating.
00:58:31
Yeah, I gave it a 2.
00:58:32
I forgot what you said, but I was pretty sure
00:58:35
that you said 2 also.
00:58:38
I mean, there's a vibe about it.
00:58:39
And like I said, I found Jack Torrance, who was supposed
00:58:42
to be the scariest part of the lead,
00:58:43
to be more punchable than he was scary.
00:58:47
But I also watched this movie very early on in my life.
00:58:52
I was probably like seven or eight.
00:58:54
I watched it with my grandma.
00:58:55
So I was a little scared at that point watching it.
00:58:57
I think re-watching it wasn't as scary at all.
00:58:59
Yeah.
00:59:00
And then a 1 out of 5 for Dr. Sleep, because it just wasn't.
00:59:04
I was having too much fun with all the little callbacks
00:59:08
to The Shining.
00:59:09
So I just wasn't scared.
00:59:14
Yeah, valid.
00:59:16
When you said I rated them the same,
00:59:18
I thought you gave them the same score.
00:59:20
No, the same as you.
00:59:21
You gave them the same as me.
00:59:22
So that's why I was confused when you said,
00:59:24
that's what you rated it?
00:59:25
I thought you were making sure we were on the same page.
00:59:29
And I was like, this is your rating.
00:59:30
So that's why I got confused.
00:59:32
Because I thought when you said the same,
00:59:33
you rated them both the same.
00:59:35
No.
00:59:36
That's not what you meant.
00:59:37
I rated them the same as you.
00:59:38
I understand.
00:59:40
How sexy did you think they were?
00:59:44
The Shining, I gave a 1.
00:59:45
Not even the 80s vibe could do it for me.
00:59:47
I don't know.
00:59:48
I just don't know.
00:59:49
I don't know.
00:59:50
I also watched it late at night.
00:59:51
I don't know.
00:59:52
And Dr. Sleep, I gave a 1 and 1 half,
00:59:54
because Rebecca Ferguson is in it, but not for her character.
00:59:58
Got it.
00:59:59
I really like her.
01:00:00
Yeah.
01:00:01
In Dune.
01:00:02
Great.
01:00:03
How about you?
01:00:04
I gave the original a 1.5.
01:00:07
OK.
01:00:07
Because I think, you know, spooky hotel, 80s.
01:00:11
There was a little vibe there.
01:00:13
Announce.
01:00:14
OK.
01:00:15
And then Dr. Sleep, I gave a 2 solely for Roseva Hat.
01:00:19
Yeah.
01:00:20
She's a hot villain.
01:00:22
Top hat Rachel.
01:00:23
Who?
01:00:24
Top hat Rachel.
01:00:26
Who's top hat Rachel?
01:00:27
That's what I thought her name was earlier.
01:00:30
Valid.
01:00:31
She is wearing a top hat.
01:00:33
Is it a top hat?
01:00:35
It's not very high.
01:00:36
If you want to know exactly what kind of hat
01:00:37
it is for some weird reason in IMDB,
01:00:40
it tells you exactly what kind of hat it is.
01:00:42
So you can go and look it up.
01:00:43
That checks out, actually.
01:00:45
Yeah.
01:00:46
Is it my turn?
01:00:46
How?
01:00:47
Fucked up?
01:00:47
Did you think they were?
01:00:49
Sorry.
01:00:50
No, it's fine.
01:00:52
It's like, why hasn't she asked me yet?
01:00:54
Yeah.
01:00:54
It's hard to keep track of 100 episodes in.
01:00:58
We're doing it different this time, OK?
01:01:01
It's a little different.
01:01:03
God.
01:01:04
All right, the first one I give a 1.
01:01:07
The Shining, OK?
01:01:08
Yeah, yeah, yeah, The Shining.
01:01:10
I gave it like a 0.5 because the lady with the sword is all over.
01:01:14
I don't like that.
01:01:15
But other than that, kind of classic ghost story.
01:01:18
Yeah.
01:01:19
It's a little fucked up how he talks to her
01:01:22
and the filming practices.
01:01:24
But movie content, I gave it like half a point.
01:01:28
Dr. Sleep, I give it 2 solely for the baseball boy scene.
01:01:31
That was crazy.
01:01:32
That was a lot.
01:01:33
Maybe like half a point for when her hand gets skinned.
01:01:36
But yeah, that was also a little much.
01:01:40
You're forgetting another scene.
01:01:42
Oh, am I?
01:01:43
What?
01:01:44
Ask me what I rated it.
01:01:46
What did you rate it, Katie?
01:01:47
Thank you.
01:01:47
The Shining, I gave a 1.5.
01:01:51
OK.
01:01:52
And I really think it is hard to like,
01:01:54
it's almost like trivializing this movie in particular,
01:01:57
just because of the cultural impact of it.
01:01:59
It's like, I don't know.
01:02:00
But I gave it a 1.5 because of kind of what you said,
01:02:03
the way he speaks to his family and some of the makeup.
01:02:10
And Dr. Sleep, I gave it 2.5 for the baseball scene.
01:02:17
The like hand degloving was really excessive.
01:02:21
And the dead toddler, the dead rotting toddler.
01:02:26
Yeah, I did forget about that part.
01:02:27
Yeah, that was awful.
01:02:29
That was a little much.
01:02:30
The baseball kid scene, I will not forget.
01:02:33
Yeah, that one sticks with you.
01:02:34
Yeah, and I will, anybody I recommend this movie to,
01:02:37
which, will I recommend it, will I not?
01:02:40
I don't know, you're going to have to find out.
01:02:41
And next question, I will warn them of that scene.
01:02:45
Yeah, it's a lot.
01:02:46
Yeah, too much for me.
01:02:50
Overall, what did you think?
01:02:53
The Shining, I mean, again, the cultural impact alone,
01:02:56
this movie deserves very high praise.
01:03:00
I don't think it's as scary as a lot of people do.
01:03:02
I think even like Robert De Niro was like,
01:03:04
I stayed up for months with Nightmares
01:03:06
after watching this movie.
01:03:08
I do think it was mostly well acted
01:03:09
and very clearly thought out.
01:03:13
But I also think that Stephen King not liking it
01:03:16
and the way that Stanley Kubrick kind of ran the show,
01:03:21
I mean, that holds a little weight here too.
01:03:24
So critically and personally, I'm giving it a four.
01:03:27
And then, I know I want to hear yours first
01:03:30
and then we can do Dr. Sleep.
01:03:32
Okay.
01:03:33
Okay.
01:03:35
I agree.
01:03:36
I also gave it a four.
01:03:37
Thank you.
01:03:38
Critically, I might give it a 4.5.
01:03:41
Yeah, that's great.
01:03:42
But personally, I give it a four.
01:03:45
There's no denying that it's a great film.
01:03:47
It's an iconic film.
01:03:49
It was well shot.
01:03:50
Stanley Kubrick might be insane,
01:03:52
but he is a good director.
01:03:55
But yeah, I think the issues were for me were,
01:03:58
hey, both of these movies are too long.
01:04:00
Stop making movies this long.
01:04:01
I can't handle it.
01:04:03
So long.
01:04:04
That's a personal thing, but I hate it.
01:04:06
They're so long.
01:04:07
It doesn't need to be that long.
01:04:07
I could have cut at least 30 minutes
01:04:09
out of both of these movies.
01:04:10
Anyways, that's a new thing.
01:04:12
I'm too fucking old to sit in a theater
01:04:14
for two and a half hours.
01:04:15
I can't sit in those chairs that long.
01:04:17
Well, the new ones are kind of nice,
01:04:18
but still, anyways, that's a personal thing.
01:04:21
The other thing I do, I haven't read the book, right?
01:04:25
So I can't say if I like it better,
01:04:27
if I like the choices or not that were made
01:04:29
because this is my only experience with it.
01:04:32
But I will say not even reading the book,
01:04:34
I do agree with Stephen King that I wish Jack
01:04:39
had started out a little bit more sane
01:04:41
than I think Jack Nicholson is able to portray.
01:04:45
And that descent would have been really interesting to watch.
01:04:49
And then I also agree with his hatred of Wendy's character.
01:04:54
Again, nothing to do with Shelley DeVille.
01:04:55
I think she's incredible in this role,
01:04:57
but I wish that she was a stronger character.
01:05:01
So those two points I agree with,
01:05:03
not having read the book.
01:05:05
I'm hoping to get to both of those books this year
01:05:07
if I keep up my pace, fingers crossed.
01:05:09
So we'll see.
01:05:10
Maybe at some point this year,
01:05:12
I'll be talking about my opinions.
01:05:13
So yeah, I give it a four out of five.
01:05:16
Nice.
01:05:17
Dr. Sleep.
01:05:18
Okay, Dr. Sleep.
01:05:20
I did think this was a fun sequel
01:05:22
to an incredibly impactful film.
01:05:24
I think that Mike Flanagan did a really good job.
01:05:28
I don't think it holds anywhere close to the same weight
01:05:31
as its predecessor.
01:05:32
I don't know how it would.
01:05:34
I didn't really like that they sort of
01:05:37
tangible-ized the entity.
01:05:44
I didn't like that it was, there was an explanation,
01:05:47
such like a firm explanation for what was happening
01:05:50
to people.
01:05:51
And like you could, there was like a physical representation
01:05:56
of the shine, you know?
01:05:58
No.
01:05:59
You know what I'm saying?
01:06:00
Like the like the like the wisp, like.
01:06:02
Oh, the steam?
01:06:03
Yeah, like that's-
01:06:04
Well, the steam's not the shine.
01:06:06
Well, it comes from people who have the shine.
01:06:09
Yeah.
01:06:10
So to me, that was like a representation of it,
01:06:12
like a physical representation.
01:06:14
I don't know.
01:06:14
It just was, it didn't feel like as spooky
01:06:19
or as impactful as kind of what The Shining did,
01:06:22
which was left it a little bit open
01:06:23
to our interpretation, you know?
01:06:27
But anyway, all the, it was so fun to watch,
01:06:30
just like all the little callbacks,
01:06:31
especially immediately after watching The Shining,
01:06:33
all the little callbacks, all the, you know,
01:06:36
shot for shot scenes, I came falling down the stairs.
01:06:38
I was like, oh my God, like that literally happens
01:06:40
in the first movie.
01:06:42
So all to say, I gave it a three out of five.
01:06:45
And I would recommend it to especially fans of The Shining
01:06:49
with the caveat that there's that fucking scene in it
01:06:52
that you got a stomach.
01:06:53
Yeah.
01:06:54
All right.
01:06:55
Why'd you give it?
01:06:55
She only kind of hated it.
01:06:56
Yeah, only a little bit.
01:06:57
Only a little bit.
01:06:59
I give it a 3.5.
01:07:01
Okay.
01:07:02
I think, yeah, it's not The Shining.
01:07:05
But I also didn't expect it to be, right?
01:07:08
It's a sequel.
01:07:09
And I do think Flanagan had to toe that line of,
01:07:13
A, even getting it made because Stephen King didn't want
01:07:18
to acknowledge the original, right?
01:07:20
So I think him working with him and kind of toeing that line,
01:07:23
maybe it did hinder it a little bit because he,
01:07:25
I don't think he could do everything that maybe he wanted
01:07:28
to do because he had to toe that line.
01:07:30
But I do think that he did it well.
01:07:31
I think it's a fun movie to watch.
01:07:33
It doesn't feel that horror to me.
01:07:35
Again, it kind of feels more like a superhero movie,
01:07:37
but an interesting superhero movie.
01:07:40
So I'm into it.
01:07:41
Yeah.
01:07:43
I like Rosa Hat too.
01:07:43
I think she's a cool villain.
01:07:45
She's okay.
01:07:46
I'm tired.
01:07:48
Yeah.
01:07:49
That was a lot.
01:07:51
It is a lot and we're not done.
01:07:52
Would you survive?
01:07:54
I, yeah.
01:07:57
Not a whole lot of people die.
01:07:59
Oh, I remember my final complaint.
01:08:01
Oh, great.
01:08:02
Sorry.
01:08:03
I cannot fucking believe they went to this whole,
01:08:06
like through this whole thing about,
01:08:08
you know, calling back to like the tangible entity or whatever.
01:08:13
And then it boils down to a fucking gunfight.
01:08:16
What?
01:08:17
You remember the gunfight in this movie?
01:08:19
Oh, yeah, I do.
01:08:21
That's insane that they were able to shoot them and they die.
01:08:27
Well, okay.
01:08:29
Well, they're not immortal.
01:08:31
Right.
01:08:32
But it takes away all of their power.
01:08:35
Like, it's like, oh, you can just shoot them.
01:08:38
Like, they're not scary.
01:08:39
See, I feel like that feels more grounded to me.
01:08:42
I don't know.
01:08:43
It's not about shooting.
01:08:44
It's about getting them to a point where you can shoot them.
01:08:47
I guess.
01:08:48
What was the question?
01:08:50
Would you survive?
01:08:51
Oh, yeah.
01:08:52
Yeah, I would.
01:08:53
Not a lot of people die in this.
01:08:54
I'm fine.
01:08:57
If I had a voice in my head, I would talk back to it.
01:08:59
So we would have gotten this all figured out a long time ago.
01:09:02
How about you?
01:09:04
Yeah, I think I'm okay in The Shining.
01:09:07
I'm assuming I would be Wendy.
01:09:09
And again, 40 minutes in when my husband talked to me like that, I'm packing myself and the
01:09:13
kid up in the car and we're leaving.
01:09:15
So bye.
01:09:16
Have fun with the ghosts on your own, Jack.
01:09:20
And then if I'm, you know, Danny in the sequel, just not getting involved.
01:09:25
Yeah.
01:09:26
That's fair.
01:09:27
That's not fair.
01:09:28
I'm probably helping, but I'm not lighting myself on fire.
01:09:33
Yeah.
01:09:34
I still think it was necessary for him to do that.
01:09:37
Well, it was because that's how the movie got made.
01:09:41
I guess so.
01:09:42
Stephen King needed the overlook to burn to the ground.
01:09:45
That was crucial.
01:09:46
Yeah.
01:09:47
Well, whatever.
01:09:48
Yeah.
01:09:49
Do you want to predict next week's movie?
01:09:52
Yeah.
01:09:53
It's a David Lynch.
01:09:54
It is a David Lynch.
01:09:55
Do you know which one?
01:09:56
Mulholland Drive?
01:09:57
Nope.
01:09:58
Eraserhead.
01:09:59
Oh my God.
01:10:00
Okay.
01:10:01
The Shining was heavily inspired by Eraserhead.
01:10:02
Because it's about a man who goes around making people forget everything they've ever known.
01:10:21
He erases people's memories.
01:10:25
So it's like a verb, eraser head.
01:10:30
Yeah.
01:10:31
And what's lynching about it is that he physically goes into their heads, finds the memories
01:10:43
he wants to erase, literally erases them with an eraser, and then comes back out of their
01:10:53
brains.
01:10:54
And he does it because he's contracted by the military to do it.
01:11:01
So he's a military man.
01:11:05
Somebody finds out, they're like holding him hostage though.
01:11:08
He's like, yeah, it's a contract, but it's more like a prisoner on a long leash kind
01:11:15
of situation, you know?
01:11:17
Because they don't want him to misuse his power.
01:11:20
And he owes a debt to the military somehow.
01:11:22
Exactly.
01:11:23
Right.
01:11:24
And he's like, we don't even have to watch it now.
01:11:25
We don't.
01:11:26
That's the movie.
01:11:27
Did I get anything right?
01:11:28
Nope.
01:11:29
Oh, there's a man in it.
01:11:30
Oh, okay.
01:11:31
Wow.
01:11:32
It does in fact star a man.
01:11:37
Is he Eraserhead?
01:11:38
Mm-hmm.
01:11:39
Great.
01:11:40
I swear to God, if he has a head that's an eraser, I want to be pissed.
01:11:45
I think you should just go into this movie blind.
01:11:47
I plan to.
01:11:48
And take it for what it is.
01:11:50
Okay.
01:11:51
A David Lynch film.
01:11:52
A David Lynch film.
01:11:53
Yep.
01:11:54
All right.
01:11:55
Are you going to watch the David Lynch version of Dune?
01:11:57
What, now?
01:11:58
No.
01:11:59
Yeah, why not?
01:12:00
No, I got stuff to do today.
01:12:02
Oh, I didn't mean like right now, right now.
01:12:04
I just mean like...
01:12:05
Well, yeah.
01:12:06
So when I said now and you said, yeah, why not?
01:12:08
Well, like now, like after now that we've talked about it, like now that we have talked
01:12:12
about it.
01:12:13
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:12:14
And now that he's dead in his honor, you could, you know...
01:12:18
Well, you don't have to like guilt trip me like that.
01:12:21
I'm going to watch Twin Peaks first if I may.
01:12:24
Yeah, that's fair.
01:12:25
Yeah.
01:12:26
So one day, maybe, I'll watch Dune.
01:12:32
That'll be the day.
01:12:33
All right.
01:12:34
Well, excited to sort of celebrate him posthumously.
01:12:37
Yeah, for sure.
01:12:39
Rest in peace, David Lynch.
01:12:40
Yeah.
01:12:41
We'll talk about Eraserhead next week.
01:12:42
In the meantime, thank you guys for listening.
01:12:44
Feel free to like and subscribe.
01:12:46
Don't follow us on TikTok.
01:12:47
It's not there anymore.
01:12:49
I hope I'm wrong.
01:12:50
Or if it is.
01:12:51
I hope by the time you're listening, this TikTok is back.
01:12:53
I'm in such denial about it.
01:12:56
Guys, I need TikTok.
01:12:58
Anyways, yeah, we'll see how that goes.
01:13:01
But we're on YouTube.
01:13:04
We are on Instagram, but we don't really post.
01:13:06
Fuck Mark Zuckerberg.
01:13:08
And comment your favorite conspiracy theory below.
01:13:12
And see you next week.
01:13:14
Cool.
01:13:15
Bye.